OneSpecies
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Determinism VS Free will
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OneSpecies
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Because after all, we are all, one species.
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Channel Comments
CreativeVisionary92 (4 minutes ago)
@integralmath What I meant is: The behavior of entities cannot be predicted, no matter how advanced our computation systems are. Because the very building blocks of all matter behave in probabilistic and uncertain ways. The more you try to know the exact position of a particle, the less you know its momentum. Thus you can only know its wave function, which is only partial determinism. Apply that to larger scale and there is really no determinism to talk about, only probability.
overflow170 (10 minutes ago)
@ONESPECIES As i explained, we are talking because that is the response of our brain to the specific inputs(including random ones) we are receiving from the environment at this specific moment.
GurrenPrime (17 minutes ago)
I kinda figured that the deterministic argument was that human minds are controlled through the same natural processes that govern everything else in the universe, just in a more complex way that makes minds more difficult to predict or explain. 
integralmath (27 minutes ago)
Gravity, contra-you, propagates at a finite speed. Anything and everything that has gone beyond the bubble I earlier mentioned is forever lost to us, despite what topology of our universe you happen to think is the case (i.e., whether you think we live in 4, 6, 10, 11, 26 dimensions).
ONESPECIES (32 minutes ago)
@Shangori Much appreciated. But I think we are all in too much hurry to call this case closed. Apart from Dennett's fine reasoning, we could discuss many aspects of this issue, and that is what I hope for through this vid. We can not simply jump from quantum physics and naturalistic determinism, to human societies in one leap. There is a lot to talk about in between.
RichardRoy2 (46 minutes ago)
I've not heard the topic framed this way before, and find it quite refreshing. I'm glad you put the effort into this topic.
ONESPECIES (52 minutes ago)
@Carutsu Convincing is not my purpose, but thinking is. I am not too much into the rewinding kind of thinking. I do recognize that even what I regard as free will is a small factor compared to determinism. But the question is whether that small amount of voluntary choices we have, has the power to direct us away from an otherwise unavoidable future or not.I for one am convinced for now, that even the minute amount of choices that are not obligatory is enough propulsion to steer away from future.
Wraakh (2 hour ago)
@ONESPECIES yes, backwards time travel is a philosophical exercise used to visualize a situation where you could measure the same state of a system more than once.
CreativeVisionary92 (1 hour ago)
@integralmath I know that. I said that you can only predict the behavior of a wave function with respect to time. I agree with you on that, but this function is just a probability amplitude of how a subatomic particle should behave. Its exact position and momentum cannot be known at the same time. You should be familiar with Heisenberg's principle. If so, the random temporary dipole interaction can have major effect on the macro-scale system... resulting in chaos.
ONESPECIES (3 hours ago)
@Wraakh As I said, check out Dennett, he does a much greater job of explaining not only why Free will exists beyond the realm of illusion, but he also shows, why Evolution is probably evidence of free will. Check the description. but also think about all those choices, you make within determinism, that are not directed by an imidiate environmental agent, but are instead on the level, waiting for you to choose.
integralmath (16 hours ago)
@CreativeVisionary92 one cannot say that both can't be known simultaneously. One can only say that we do not have the means to measure that. You'll do no work by asking me to recall a principle I've specifically addressed and indicated a knowledge of. I'm aware of what it says. This is an issue of measurement, which says nothing whatever about whether it can be known. Again, there is a finite amount of computation it is possible to perform in this universe.
integralmath (17 hours ago)
@CreativeVisionary92 I understand perfectly what you meant. It's why how I was able to respond to it showing why it's an invalid chain of reasoning on its face. Again, probabilistic in appearance doesn't imply chaotic. A coin toss is modeled by probability only because we can't capture enough information about before it lands to compute the outcome before it lands. However, it is fully deterministic and can be computed provided we have enough data before it lands.
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